PRIOR TO CONCEPTION: What and Where? Part Three

An Advaita Vedanta philosophy site, focusing on Realization, enlightenment, nisarga yoga, non-duality (nonduality), your original nature, dwelling as your natural state, and the teachings of Maharaj.

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FROM ANOTHER SITE VISITOR: Just finished reading the series on doubt. Believing I was farther along the path, but not even sure I’ve passed what you called obstacle one. Any suggestions? Thx.

F.: If the answers to the questions about the body yesterday showed You that You are not the body, can You attest before moving any farther along this “path” that You are truly certain that You would still be You, even after those body parts were removed?

Is it now an unequivocal fact, known to You with all certainty and without any reservation whatsoever, that You would still be You, even if the body had no arms or legs and had replacement organs? If so, then look at the follow-up question from yesterday:

WHO or WHAT realized that yesterday? WHO or WHAT realizes that is a fact today? Was it not You that answered with five YES’s yesterday? So WHO or WHAT is that “You” which saw yesterday that You/It is not the body?

Are you thinking maybe it was “the mind” that figured out that fact? That is impossible since “the mind” is nothing more than the storehouse of all the non-facts you have been taught. A part of the brain that stores non-facts can never find facts or truth.

So if (1) it was not “the mind” that came to know You would still be You even without arms, legs, and certain “original” organs, and if (2) it was certainly not the body that knows anything, then the You that knows You would be You has to be You, but what does that "You" refer to if not the body or the “mind”?

What is it that can know? Only the consciousness. Thus, You (the manifested consciousness) know that You (the manifested consciousness) would still be You (the manifested consciousness) even as it becomes clear that neither the body-cum-consciousness nor the “mind” has anything to do with that You (The manifested consciousness).

So You Are presently—but temporarily—the manifested consciousness that can (a) know ItSelf and can (2) know that it is not the body and can (3) know that it is not the “mind.”

Now that all of that is known, and since it is known that the body and “mind” cannot be permanent, and since you have been told that You always Were, that You Are, and that You Shall Always Be, then please consider this before tomorrow’s posting:

1. WHAT specifically is that You that is permanent…that has always been?

2. Since it has always been, WHERE was it prior to where it is now?

3. How did it arrive in its current location?

4. And since it always shall be—and since neither the body nor “the mind” shall always be—then WHERE might that which You have always been (and always shall be) "go" when both the body-cum-consciousness and “the-mind”-cum-ignorance” fade away?

Please enter the silence of contemplation. (To be continued)

FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THIS TOPIC:

Click FROM THE I TO THE ABSOLUTE (A Seven-Step Journey to Realization)

and

Click WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I DIE?

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PRIOR TO CONCEPTION: What and Where? Part Two

An Advaita Vedanta philosophy site, focusing on Realization, enlightenment, nisarga yoga, non-duality (nonduality), your original nature, dwelling as your natural state, and the teachings of Maharaj.

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FROM ANOTHER SITE VISITOR: Just finished reading the series on doubt. Believing I was farther along the path, but not even sure I’ve passed what you called obstacle one. Any suggestions? Thx.

F.: Understand that persons identified with the body cannot possibly be any farther removed from Reality. If that identification continues, such persons will never move beyond the sleepwalking state in which the non-Realized function.

Should you choose, you can answer some questions that are offered during retreats. The answers to the questions (and the awareness that comes via those answers) often change the perception that one is the body. This is the first step in perceiving Who/What You Really Are.

Consider: the body exists in three dimensions: height, width, and depth. To find Who You Really Are, you must perceive at least the fourth of many dimensions beyond the three associated with body identification.

Understand that there is so much more beyond the limited 3-D “world” and “persons” that you think you see. Further, the body is driven by the desires of a mind programmed in a culture to seek stimulation of the five senses. To find out Who You Really Are, the sixth sense must be activated.

Some, by answering the questions below, have been able to tap into that sixth sense and have been able to perceive beyond three dimensions. Please answer the following with a “YES” or a “NO”:

1. If your left arm were cut off, would You still be You?______

2. If your right arm were cut off, would You still be You?______

3. If your left leg were cut off, would You still be You?______

4. If your right leg were cut off, would You still be You?______

5. If the major organs in the remaining torso were replaced by transplanted organs, would You still be You?______

If you answered “NO” to any of those questions, then you may well be trapped so unequivocally in body identification that Realization is out of reach. If you answered “YES” to all five of the questions, then please answer the following questions now:

WHO (or WHAT) answered those questions in the affirmative?_____

Do you see that the “YES” answers to the five questions above show that the Real You is something BEYOND the physical body?_____

It might be that You just had your first experience of consciously touching a truth that You have subconsciously but not consciously sensed all along—even as that awareness may have been trying to force its way into consciousness. The awareness is, specifically, that You are something other than a limited, finite, physical body.

Do you see, then, that whatever is of “this world” is temporary—not real—and that whatever is Real and permanent, is BEYOND this physical manifestation? ____

Are you beginning to get a sense that the Real You is something BEYOND the body?____ If so, the “sense” that is revealing that is the sixth sense. More to the point, It is the consciousness becoming aware of ItSelf as something beyond any supposed "3-D realm.” Please enter the silence of contemplation. (To be continued)

FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THIS TOPIC:

Click FROM THE I TO THE ABSOLUTE (A Seven-Step Journey to Realization)

and

Click WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I DIE?

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PRIOR TO CONCEPTION: What and Where? Part One

An Advaita Vedanta philosophy site, focusing on Realization, enlightenment, nisarga yoga, non-duality (nonduality), your original nature, dwelling as your natural state, and the teachings of Maharaj.

RETREATS OR SATSANG w/ floyd ONE-ON-ONE, by TELEPHONE, by INTERNET CHAT ROOM, and via THE ADVAITA COURSE BY INTERNET (see link to right)
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FROM A SITE VISITOR: Stopped by your site -- it does not adhere to the Advaita Vedanta teachings that my guru offers which are based in the sacred texts which you might want to study.

FROM ANOTHER SITE VISITOR: Just finished reading the series on doubt. Believing I was farther along the path, but not even sure I’ve passed what you called obstacle one. Any suggestions? Thx.

F.: To the first comment: if you have a competent guru, why are you stopping by this site? Furthermore, if you believe that any texts are sacred, then indeed there will be nothing here for you. As for “my possibly wanting to study,” there is nothing I want, I being the unblocked consciousness that has seen and understood the functioning of the totality and can guide those seekers that are ready to the same. There are four methods of teachings (five if you count pseudo-Advaita). Possibly you are not aware of what method your guru is using as opposed to the method employed here. If you were, you might conclude that one method “works for some,” that another method might “work for others,” and that—most often—no method is likely at all to “work for the masses.”

And that pointer leads to the question from the second visitor. The Traditional teacher (à la Shankara / Upanishads) will tell you to study the scriptures. The Neo-Vedantins (à la Vivekanada) will promote what some consider a "weakened version" of the Traditional method.

The Neo-Advaitin teacher might tell you that “there is no seeker, nothing to seek, realize that, and goodbye—go have a good life.”

But here, the Direct Path Method and nisarga yoga are offered. Why? Because that is the way Realization happened for this speck. It is not to say that it is “the better method” or “the right method” or “the only method that works.” It is simply the one that “worked” for this speck.

In order for full disclosure to happen, the method and yoga are both identified in the banner, but that reveals nothing to the seeker who does not know what all of the methods are. So it is.

To the second visitor, one pointer offered is that “You cannot know Who/What You Truly Are until You know All That You Are Not.” However, that cannot apply in the case of a beginner trying to understand that he/she is not a body.

First, truth cannot be stated, so the scriptures that some believe to be statements of truth cannot be. Truth can be known but not told (as in, “The Tao that can be told is not the Tao” and “The unnamable is the eternally real”). So no attempt here will be made to guide you via a Traditional method to understanding that you are not the body by referring you to any “holy writing.”

Next, you will not be offered here the flowery but often appealing talks that attract seekers who are attached to their especially romantic bent, so no Neo-Advaitin pointers will be offered.

Third, you will not be told, “You are not the body. I tell you that, and because I tell you that, you should now know it. Now leave.”

Here, instead, the Direct Path Method is used, which employs thorns to remove thorns. Yes, learned ignorance must go, but, yes too, certain awarenesses are required before all can be discarded.

Here, it is understood that untruths block You from being aware of What You Are and from knowing why You are not the body. The method here attempts to remove by logic and reason and argument all belief in the untruths that block you from being aware of all that You already know.

Here, Self-Inquiry is one tool used, but what is not used is worship (of either a god or a guru), what is not use is bhakti, and what is not used are any of the many sets of disciplines that are “out there.”

Here, the method used is based in the understanding that there is no do-er but that there are many beliefs that must be discarded in order for the Realization of truth to manifest. Here, there is never an invitation to seek without (to seek via an external god or gods, writings, texts, dogma, etc.) Here, the pointing is to the inner guru, the inner resource.

When Realization happens via this method and this yoga, then the remainder of the manifestation will happen spontaneously and naturally. There will be no required continuation of practices and disciplines and on-going work or spiritual exercises.

Here, the attempt is to shine the light of awareness onto the illogical and unreasonable and often insane belief systems that block the seeing of truth and that inspire unnatural living or efforts toward supernatural living.

Now, for those seekers that sense this method might finally provide the understanding that they have been seeking, the teaching can now begin at the beginning as the discussion centers on the second visitor’s request for suggestions that will guide that seeker to understanding why he/she is not the body...a prerequisite for moving farther along the “path” to Full Realization. Please enter the silence of contemplation. (To be continued)

FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THIS TOPIC:

Click FROM THE I TO THE ABSOLUTE (A Seven-Step Journey to Realization)

and

Click WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I DIE?

RETREATS OR SATSANG w/ floyd ONE-ON-ONE, by TELEPHONE, by INTERNET CHAT ROOM, and via THE ADVAITA COURSE BY INTERNET (see link to right)
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DOUBT, Part Seven, The Conclusion

An Advaita Vedanta philosophy site, focusing on Realization, enlightenment, nisarga yoga, non-duality (nonduality), your original nature, dwelling as your natural state, and the teachings of Maharaj.

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FROM A SITE VISITOR: First off, thanks for your blog. I thought about some things you write about when I went to see the movie Doubt. I thought about how doubt had to come before I was willing to question anything. Before that, I never had any doubt at all that everything I was told by my preist and my parents was completely true. But I still have a few concepts lurking around back there that need to go. And just when I think they’re all gone, one will show up. Any advice? Please keep up your blogging. Chris

F.: So, Chris, since your second e-mail reveals that some of the lurking concepts deal with beliefs you were given by “a mother, a father, and the church,” it can now be seen that you have likely only reached the second half of the third step on the seven-step “path” to full Realization.

Consider what another seeker wrote last week regarding the spiritual personas that he adopted at that point on the “journey”:

FROM A SITE VISITOR IN THE U.K. Been reading and re-reading your books, and putting aside time for contemplation. Whereas I can't say I've got 'it' fully (I guess my mind is holding onto stuff that I can't quite identify), the resulting peace has been gratefully received. It turns out, much to my surprise that the spiritual personas I wore and acted out caused me just as much, if not more problems than most of the others!!! And there were/are lots. I've found the spiritual personas are the ones that led me to label good and bad and then led me into a state that means the world is so Fallen and wrong and into the frustration, anger and fear that obviously result from those erroneous beliefs.

So, thank you, so far, I'm enjoying the journey, much more to come I feel. The pointer you gave that 'teaching either happens or it doesn't' has been an invaluable saying for me and has helped me work in that environment with much less stress and more peace. I've ordered two more of your books, which I look forward to reading! Hope you're well. Dan.

You see, Chris, there are many steps along the seven-step “journey” where persons stop. Dan noted one step that, more often than not, proves to be an insurmountable obstacle even for the most dedicated of seekers.

Now it seems that you too have stopped at that very point as well. Specifically, Dan is referring to the second half of the third step of the seven steps—the religious or spiritual step.

Look at the obstacles on the “path” up to that point to see what all persons are up against in trying to move to the fourth step where no concepts—and therefore very little duality—remains. (Why “very little”? Subject-Object Witnessing happens farther along the “path” and that still involves an element of duality.)

OBSTACLE ONE

The challenge to try to shift beyond body identification is nearly impossible for most persons to overcome.

OBSTACLE TWO

The teaching that persons can Realize and then transition the remainder of the relative existence with the elemental brain but without the culture-created “mind” is also nearly impossible for most persons to grasp.

OBSTACLE THREE

Personality is the next obstacle to be overcome, actually involving the adoption of scores (and even hundreds) of personas as identities. For those seekers actually moving along the “path,” it is during the first half of the third step when they begin to see all of the “not-You’s”—all of the false personas that had been adopted.

Many seekers begin to conclude at the first part of the third step that some of their personas were “bad”: “The Thief,” “The Liar,” “The Scoundrel,” “The Sinner,” “The Rogue,” “The Arrogant Jerk,” “The Vicious Shrew,” “The User and Abuser of Women,” “The User and Abuser of Men,” “The Unfaithful Spouse,” “The Homewrecker,” etc. Many will determine at that point to “change” and “leave their bad ways behind.”

They might also find that many additional personas are the source of misery and suffering and should also be rejected: “The Jilted Spouse,” “The Ex-Husband,” “The Wronged Wife,” “The Fired Employee,” “The One Who Lost the Home,” “The One Whose Retirement Funds Were Stolen by a Spouse or by White-Collar Criminals,” etc.

Yet at that point on the third step, even as the so-called “bad personas” are forfeited and even as "the troublesome personas" are rejected as identities, an entirely new set of personas are adopted that persons think are “good” ones:

“The Religious Woman”; “The Spiritual Man”; “The Reformed Woman Who Now Deserves the Utmost Respect”; “The Ex-Low-life Man Who Would Now Show Others the Way”;

“The One Who Has Reached the Mountaintop”; “The Enlightened One”; “The Realized One”; “The Liberated One”; “The Formerly Crazy One Who Is Still Crazy But Who Now Thinks He Has Been Restored to Sanity,” ad infinitum.

And in your case, one or more of those are likely being sustained (or are generating a sense of guilt if they are being forfeited) by all of those early years of exposure to religious dogma.

Yet what will those so-called “good” persons bring: a sense of separation; a belief in “better-than-ness”; “a notion of “different-from-ness”; judgmentalism; arrogance; a belief that one is “godly”; a sense of present “goodness” as opposed to a perception of former “badness”;

and, as Dan noted, a hatred of the world or a desire to change the world or a fear of the evil in the world or disgust with the world, all of which—he also noted—will lead to a sense of frustration and anger and more fear.

In other words, all of that brings the misery and suffering and arrogance and sense of being “apart from” and feeling “empty” or “not feeling whole” (all of which accompany dualistic beliefs). Also, as Dan noted, the "good" personas usually inspire far more disgusting behavior, relatively speaking, than the "bad" personas.

Relatively speaking, Dan has described accurately what comes about when persons erroneously believe that there is such a thing as “this world”: a sense that people have “fallen," a "frustrating" sense that that all is “wrong,” and then anger and fear (or desires).

Relatively speaking, there can be no argument with what he has observed. Setting aside for a moment the fact that you are not in the world but that the world is in you, it is apparent to any objective witness that this “phenomenal world” has become quite the mess. So why cling to it?

And why try to reform it? Would it make sense to try to reform a mirage or to try to cling to a mirage? If one is functioning as the Pure Witness, what could a witness possibly do to affect anything? By definition a witness only witnesses.

When witnessing-only is happening, there can be no “Do-er” or “Changer” or “Reformer.” There can be no "Judgmental One" or "Angry One" or "Fearful One" or "Frustrated One."

The energy available at an electrical outlet in your home is as capable of reforming or changing or clinging to anything as the conscious-energy/witness is. To review, you are likely “stuck” at that second-half-of-the-third-step.

There, you can become trapped by trying to cling to the “good personas,” an act likely rooted in the influence of “mother and father and the priest” who all have an expectation that you will be “The Good Chris” and not “The Bad Chris.”

The invitation is to continue to log the thoughts that arise and find the lies in which those thoughts are rooted. Doubt. Question. Discard. Please enter the silence of contemplation.

FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THIS TOPIC:

Click IT’S ALL BULLSHIT

and

Click SPIRITUAL SOBRIETY

and

Click WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I DIE?

and

Click THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS “PEACE OF MIND” (There Is Only Peace If You’re Out of Your Mind)

and

Click LIBERATION

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